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Church and civil society in Italy today-political

thank friends and Paola Luciano for reporting!

I've always uncomfortable with the way you normally place the relationship between church and civil society at both theoretical and practical. Lately
discomfort became acute.
There are three closely related aspects relating to this subject, I'd like to discuss with friends:
1. the relationship the church and civil society in Italy today-political
2. whether the distinction between personal law and civil law
3. dialogue between summit and base ecclesial
The notes of this intervention are to avoid a dense extension inappropriate. The result is a commitment to read that readers will excuse me.

1. In practice, the hierarchy (Italian, Vatican) supports the current political right to power.
flood of ad personam laws, threats to democracy and the tripartite division of powers on which it is based, command-webs that are dwarf those of the ancient DC, of \u200b\u200bsectarianism communication media for the superpower, sitting at state expense obscene, vulgar ways of propaganda, lies and betrayal systematic ruling hostility towards immigrants ... these and other facts of the Right in power do not seem to weigh much in the overall verdict of the Magisterium. Yet, inter alia, carrying with it a troubling aspect of education, because it appears to be gradually acquired by the people as government policy.
What are the reasons then this unbalanced support of the Magisterium? Leads to the second point for a plausible answer.

2. I will not go on a second possible hidden intentions. I stand by the reasoning
assets: the protection of primary values human rights in civil legislation.
The Italian right now is an ally in this defense.
propose again a question as old and repetitive, as not properly addressed: I have the right and duty to enforce the civil law with the values \u200b\u200bof my personal consciousness to those who do not agree with?
For some, yes, the personal conscience and the transfer to the civil law should be hand in hand.
I paid attention, but I have not yet found an acceptable foundation for this thesis.
For others, including myself, but the two do not necessarily go hand in hand. They argue: a.
the common good sometimes requires, or at least allows a civil law differs from the staff. So in the Papal States for a long time, the Pope has allowed the brothels because they were considered a lesser evil than the free prostitution, dangerous to public health and elusive almost every legal prohibition, of course, the conscience of the Pope did not approve the sale of bodies!
b. freedom of the other is an immense treasure to defend strenuously! Thesis is not to prove, is a native of cohabitation.
Common sense, however, adds a limitation to be defended, yes, but as long as possible. It is often not possible. This imposes restrictive: there are cases in which one can or should limit others' freedom when this in turn would harm the freedom of others.
But for individual cases, the restriction must be sustainable. And that's the point dolens.
In recent years, and recently before the regional elections, I chased in vain that argument in the pronouncements of the Magisterium on so-called "ethically sensitive matters" (abortion, artificial insemination, living will ...). They are addressed to the conscience of the Christian legislating exactly as if it were directed at Christian in his personal conduct.
Should we conclude that the Magisterium does not agree with the distinction between personal law and civil law? that does not agree that the freedom of others and certain conditions of the common good in the law allowing civil behavior non consentito alla coscienza personale? Ritengo e spero non sia così.
Potremmo invece supporre in maniera più verosimile che il Magistero condivide la distinzione in linea di principio e però non la considera applicabile in alcuni casi come sarebbero le suddette materie eticamente sensibili. Allora dovrebbe precisare perché in questi casi il valore umano in gioco è tale da essere "non negoziabile", cioè deve essere trasferito perentoriamente in legge civile.
Il Papa al n. 83 del "Sacramentum caritatis" dice non negoziabili le "leggi naturali". Quali sono?
Oggi l'idea di "legge naturale" non è di facile e comune condivisione, almeno quanto alla sua conoscibilità. Ma poi anche quando una certa legge or some universal prohibition reflects the natural good, I must consider and respect, as long as possible, the freedom of others. What right do I have to impose other of the completion of his good?

3. Between top and base ecclesial dialogue which exists today on that group of delicate issues? And in the very basis on which dialogue interventions of the Magisterium? Silent obedience or silent indifference. And fear.
is certainly not as a Christian community. We must change course. Let's do it at least before they boost alarmingly silent apostasy of those Catholics who do not just say that the teaching should be more cautious in imposing the faithful conduct civil-political, he should discuss with the base of the Church must motivate. Eh! no. They do not believe, or do not believe anymore, "in principle", which the Magisterium has the right to dictate anything to the consciousness of the believer in civil. This for me, a believer-priest is serious. And rampant!
What do you think friends?

Don Enrico De Capitani, pastor of MS Crowned - I

Holcomshowerenclosures

The spring Yes we cash ... A video to tell this

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YES WE CASH + YES WE TRASH

Thursday 22 April @ Via Zamboni 38

16 hours
presentation the Book of BIN (Basic Income Network Italy)
" income for all. concrete utopia for the global era "
with:
Andrea Fumagalli (BIN - University of Pavia)
Alberto De Nicola ( Uninomade)
Association SOLD OUT Bologna

at 21.30
Bologna Improvisers Orchestra + Neil Davidson (Glasgow Improvisers Orchestra)

23.00 on
Mino & Parente from The Cavò - the best DJs of Radio kairos

24.00
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Anche questo mese forse ce la fai senza dover chiamare babbo e mamma.

Ma come arrivi al prossimo lavoro?
Al prossimo affitto?
Per l'Inps esisti solo quando devi pagare le tasse? Non ti sono rimaste neanche le mutande che indossi?

E se ci fosse un reddito? Ti aspettiamo....

Mercoledì 21 aprile 2010 dalle ore 14.00

@ P.zza Verdi Bologna

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A voice from the pack ... finally!

Here below an interview that Bishop Albert Rouet, France's most open one of the bishops, issued in Le Monde on April 4. (From http://gruppogalilei.wordpress.com)
Archbishop of Poitiers, Bishop Albert Rouet is one of the most liberal of the episcopate French. His work J'aimerais vous dire (Bayard, 2009) is a best-seller in its category. More than thirty thousand copies sold and winner of the 2010 readers of the prosecutors, this librointervista glance very critical of the Catholic Church. On the occasion of Easter, Bishop Rouet and offers his reflections on his diagnosis of the Church.

The Catholic Church has been rocked by several months for the detection of child abuse scandals in several European countries. All of this has surprised you?
I stated at the outset one thing: why there is child abuse requires two conditions, a deep perversion and power. This means that each system closed idealized sacralized is a danger. When an institution, including the Church, stands in a position of private law, it is considered in a position of strength, financial and sexual abuses are possible. E 'reveals how the current crisis and this obliges us to return to the Gospel, the weakness of Christ is constitutive of the way of being Church. In France, the Church no longer has that kind of power, which explains why it was in front of individual deviance, serious and detestable, but there is a systematization of these cases.

- These revelations arise after several crises that have marked the pontificate of Benedict XVI. Who mistreats the Church?
For some time, the Church is battered by storms, both external and internal. There is a pope who is more a theoretical than a historian. It 'was the professor who thinks that a problem, once set right, is half solved. But life does not happen that way. We find the complexity, strength of reality. You can see that in our diocese, you do what you can! The Church is hard to situate themselves in the tumultuous world in which it finds itself today. It 's the heart of the problem.
addition to this, two things strike me in the present situation of the Church. Today, there has been some frost of the word. By now, the slightest question or exegesis sulla morale viene giudicato blasfemo. Interrogarsi non è più ritenuto una cosa ovvia, ed è un peccato. Parallelamente regna nella Chiesa un clima di sospetto malsano. L’istituzione si trova ad affrontare un centralismo romano, che si basa su di una rete di denunce. Certi gruppi passano il loro tempo a denunciare le posizioni di questo o quel vescovo, a fare dei dossier contro qualcuno, a tenere delle informazioni contro qualcun altro. E questi comportamenti si sono intensificati con internet.
Inoltre, noto una evoluzione della Chiesa parallela a quella della società. Questa vuole più sicurezza, più leggi, quella più identità, più decreti, più regolamenti. Ci si protegge, ci si rinchiude, è proprio il segno di un mondo chiuso, è catastrofico!
In generale, la Chiesa è uno specchio fedele della società. Ma, oggi, nella Chiesa, le pressioni identitarie sono particolarmente forti. C’è tutta una corrente, che riflette poco, che ha sposato un’identità rivendicativa. Dopo la pubblicazione di alcune caricature sulla stampa riguardanti la pedofilia nella Chiesa, ci sono state delle reazioni degne degli integralisti islamici sulle caricature di Maometto! A voler apparire offensivi, ci si squalifica.

- Il presidente della Conferenza episcopale (francese), Mons. André Vingt-Trois lo ha ripetuto a Lourdes il 26 marzo: la Chiesa francese è colpita dalla crisi delle vocazioni, dalla difficulty of transmitting the faith, by the dilution of the Christian presence in society. How is this situation?
I try to take note that we are at the end of an era. We have gone from a Christianity of habit, a belief in Christianity. Christianity has persisted due to the fact that he reserved the monopoly of the sacred and the management of the celebrations. Faced with new religions, secularization, people no longer refer to this sacred. However, we can say that the butterfly is "more" or "less" of the chrysalis? It 's another thing. So, do not reason in terms of degeneration or neglect: we are mutando. Bisogna misurare l’ampiezza di questa mutazione. Si prenda la mia diocesi: Settantanni fa contava ottocento preti. Oggi ne ha duecento, ma conta anche 45 diaconi e 10mila persone impegnate nelle 320 comunità locali che abbiamo creato quindici anni fa. E’ meglio. Bisogna arrestare la pastorale della SNCF (ndr.: ferrovie dello stato francesi). Bisogna chiudere delle linee e aprirne delle altre. Quando ci si adatta alle persone, al loro modo di vivere, ai loro orari, la frequenza aumenta, anche al catechismo! La Chiesa ha questa capacità di adattamento.

- In quale modo?
Non abbiamo più un personale per mantenere una suddivisione di 36000 parrocchie. O si considera che si tratta di una miseria that we must escape at all costs and then back to sanctify the priest, or you invent something else. The poverty of the Church is a provocation to open new doors. The Church must rely on the clergy or the baptized? For my part, I think we need to trust the laity and stop work on a medieval organization. It 's a fundamental change. It 's a challenge.

- The challenge involves opening the priesthood to married men? Yes and no! No, because I imagine that tomorrow may order ten married men, I know, not what is missing. But I could not afford them. So should play for another job and would be available only weekends for the sacraments. Then he would return to worship an image of the priest. It would be a false modernity.
However, if you change the way exercise the ministry, though his standing in the community is different, then yes you can imagine the ordination of married men. The priest no longer has to be the leader of his parish, must support those who are baptized in the faith so that they become adults, train them, keep them close in on themselves.
It's up to him to remember that it is for other Christians, not for himself, then preside over the Eucharist as a gesture of brotherhood. If lay people remain minors, the Church will not be credible. Must speak adulto ad adulto.

- Lei ritiene che la parola della Chiesa non sia più adatta al mondo. Perché? Con la secolarizzazione, si sviluppa una “bolla spirituale” nella quale le parole fluttuano; a cominciare dalla parola “spirituale” che si può riferire più o meno a qualsiasi merce. Quindi è importante dare ai cristiani i mezzi per identificare e per esprimere gli elementi della loro fede. Non si tratta di ripetere una dottrina ufficiale ma di permettere loro di esprimere liberamente la propria adesione. È spesso il nostro modo di parlare che non funziona. Bisogna scendere dalla montagna, scendere in pianura, umilmente. Per far questo occorre un enorme lavoro di formazione. Perché la fede had become something which was not discussed among Christians.

- What is your greatest concern for the Church?
The danger is real. The threat to the Church is to become a subculture. My generation was thus particularly anxious to inculturation, immersion in the society. Today, the risk is that Christians themselves up among them, simply because they have the impression of being faced with a world of misunderstanding. But it is not accusing the company of all the evils that you become light for humanity. On the contrary, an immense mercy for this world in which millions of people die of hunger. It's up to us to open ourselves to the world and up to us to make us lovable.